Need some LP advice!

[Teleman]

Many moons ago my main guitar was a '69 LP custom. A black fretless wonder that I played to death and sold around '75.
I've played teles and strats since and now I really have the itch to get another LP. Problem is, I've been away from them for so long that I'm not up on what years are good, bad or indifferent. So if you all can help or just point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.

I do know that I like the 50's neck profile, played a '56 LP RI recently. I like flame tops but after looking at some of the 58 and 59 RI prices I'm a bit in sticker shock.

My budget for this LP will be around $2000.

So help me out gang.
Thanks

[Wally]

I just sold a Jimmy Wallace Custom Shop guitar because of the 1960 neck profile. I have GAS for a R9 because of not only the larger neck profile but the larger frets as compared to the R8. If you are wanting the smaller fret, try a Les Paul '57 Reissue Goldtop. It might fit into the budget...gets closer, anyway...if it had the larger frets, I would be interested.

[Bogner]

:x Avoid the Norlin Eras if you have a choice; inferior quality :x

[stevedenver]

:shock: i totally disagree regarding norlins-there can be excellent norlin era guitars, and its this mythology that makes them a bargain....at times

i have been really into lps for the past seven years ....i own more than i should...been studying the things lots....here in denver at lest used lps are less common..one lesson i have learned be patient and you are likely tofind what you want at the right price...if you hurry you will pay more for a used axe..want ads, small stores, big stores, pawn shops, stores that specialize in accoustic guitars... it takes time and saturday mornings...

-the problem now is that six-seven years ago IMHO they werent 'quite' considered vintage-now everythings bloody 'vintage'...everyone thinks thier guitar is a collectable and people who can are hanging onto guitars....the real issue to me is value for dollar...norlins can be a great value....knock out value if you get a good one for a great price...

for $2k theres quite a range for you-you can get a great historic goldtop, and quite possibly a black beauty historic used-historics are made by the gibson custom shop and not by gibson usa-

(FWIW fretless wonder frets are not used any longer on newer customs because they arent popular)-on 1957 historic customs there are humbucker versions 2 and 3 pup and the 54 version which has a p90 bridge and old alnico bridge-they are cool but an acquired taste-not to be purchase without playing first-many think the neck a bit muddy-and they can be heavy-customs tend to be the real boat anchors among lp boat anchors-historic customs have a entire mahogany body-no maple cap as is the case with 'current' production customs-they sound different

FYI, 2003 had some historic lps with brazillian stump wood fingerboards, highly sought after, and commanding higher prices than regular finger board lps,

there are quite a few 2001 and some 2002 old stock historics still available-most leftovers will tend to be heavier-around 9lbs+-better is 8,5 lbs, but dont go too light-popular opinon is that too light under 8lbs which is rare makes the guitar a bit thin tonewise-personally id risk it--these older axes need to be moved and now is the time since 2004 are on the way...typcially anything from 1999 to present for HIstorics is desirable

currently in 2003 unlike other years, historics are being sorted by wood -now the less exepensive versions get less figured woods and heavier woods, the premium 59's and 60's get the lighter and more figured woods-this wasnt the practice in 2002 and before 58s had knock out figured tops, in 2003 they are plaintops

there are slight technical variation in years, such as pots, caps, aluminum tailpeices, shape of top carve, colors, etc., playing wise these are less significant unless you are a historic anal retentive type and most can be corrected

there is a great variation in neck shapes and they dont correspond to the models (in lp parlance these are called R4, R6, R7, R8, R9, R0-for 1954 and 1956 (only p90s-different bridges, 1957 r stands for reissue)) i have played 59s and 58 and 57s' all with baseball bat necks and some with slightly thinner necks (theyre all hand shaped and they vary with no rhyme nor reason-so you gotta playem,only the 60 is the model with a consistently thinner neck (among lp guys thick is good-better resonance and stiffness=bite)

as for the dreaded norlins -the only issues are that quality varied and you need to play each guitar (some were bad, some ugly, but many more were good to excellent-some had thick volutes (the section where the peg head joins the neck) some had really pronounced red to yello finishes, some have lousy pots (300k instead of 500K) -most had great wood and good to excellent finishes-some details were variable-like frets and fingerboards, binding, etc.they dont look like a computer manufactured piece of perfection-cause they werent...

if you really want additional info go the "the unofficial les paul forum" and search(this is a great site to become educated if you are willing to search and read-itll blow you away)-theres a lot of feedback-many many people have great norlins-they have a tighter, different sound that historics-neither good nor bad -different-and a huge amount of classic rock tunes were recorded with norlins-two highly recommended books-50 years of the Gibson Les Paul Tony Bacon overview of all the lps and thier featurses, and Beauty of the Burst-which shows the real fifties lps and has a very infomrative technical section on why the original features affected the sound

and yeah i have several norlins -and historics-and others....norlins generally WILL be heavier (at that time heavy equated to the popular myth that you got greater sustain)-this can be a drag when playing gigs ...makes a historic worth even more...

maple necks are one aspect of some later seventies early eighties norlins-they tend to be stiff ( a good thing ) and brighter; pancake bodies are dissed lots as are three peice necks-IMHO these are factors but not that big a deal-both tend to reflect wood resonance issues-i have solid bods and pancakes, three peices and single...IMHO no one factor is bad..

all in all if i had $2k as my budget id first look for a historic goldtop PERIOD, best tone and some great values-the long neck tenon is exclusive to historics (there are only two exceptions i know of in norlins) and this makes a significant tonal difference-Historic's woods tend to be better and lighter, the best tonal value imho is the gold top-the real deal lp, light, playable, the tone, at the least expensive price-expect your historic may need a dress or nut-this a common complaint-mine was fine, but i have played others begging for a professional set up-

next, the current Gibson USA weight relieved standards (they drill holes under the cap to lessen the weight of the guitar-yes it afffects tone -but they are still nice guitars) with burstbuckers are also very fine instruments-they dont sound like a historic however-but still a good guitar

and if you want to re-create the old love, as i did seven years ago when i strolled into GC with no intention of buying a guitar-but saw an old custom like my first 1971, -look for old customs-but you have to play every one-(the 'earlier' years post 68 thru 70-71 are more sought after-there is a mystique regarding the 68s because they too had the longer tenons and thus thier desirability is affecting closer years prices-but the years after 68 aint the same-but dealers presume you dont know this)-youmust become acquainted with the market-=prices are all over-and dealers try to see what they can get-not what the guitar is worth

for 'lousy' norlins - i have, among others, a 76 custom, fretless wonder brazillian rosewood top, long tenon, that i got from GC-they too thought it a 'lousy norlin' and i got it mint...cheap-gruhn just sold the same model for 6K.....has tone that rivals any historic

spotlight specials, heritages, and other great lps were also from norlin.....use your ears and hands-and I strongly urge you to play a historic just for comparison-get on the forum it will also help you get a great feel for pricing

now arent you glad you asked?????
best of luck and good hunting :lol: