Help me with info on my vintage Les Paul

Ringo · March 8th, 2010, 07:09 PM

Calling on all you experts out there, I have what I believe is a vintage 1968 Gibson Les Paul.
My brother bought this used in the late 70s from a guy who had gigged professionally with it for years, lots of honest play wear!

What I know about it, originally it had either p90s or mini humbuckers w a single bride / tailpiece combination ( you can see the plugged holes under the tuneamatic bridge ) and all the typical 70's mods were done to it - brass nut, sealed Grover tuners, Dimarzio humbuckers, tuneamatic style bridge w tailpiece.
It may have been refretted at one time.
Since I've owned it I changed the tuners to some new Gibson vintage style tuners, had a bone nut cut for it, installed a set of 57 Classic humbuckers and a RS Guitarworks wiring kit and had a pro set up done, frets dressed etc..
It plays and sounds great.
I'm just trying to get an idea of what the market value is on this guitar.

Link to lots of detailed pics here
http://community.webshots.com/album/576958607TcNNTB

Let me know what you think about it.
Thanks

eljayski · March 8th, 2010, 08:22 PM

hi, ringo, and welcome!

nice looking lester, for sure. don't sell it.

Wally · March 9th, 2010, 12:35 PM

Ringo, that is an interesting guitar. The 2-piece body, the uniform depth of the bindig in the cutaway and the 'no volute' neck along with the serial number and the 'made in USA' lead me to believe that that is a LEs Paul Standard '58 (editted). IT would have come with 2 soapbars with 'Gibson' embossed on them, and the one-piece stop tialpiece/bridge. IT was introduced in '71 and discontinued in '73. IT should have been a goldtop...but things happen. IT could have been refinned, or it might be that it left the factory that way???
The case screams 1960's with that yellow interior. I know that by '73, Gibson cases were purple interiors. THe binding, the volute and the body (not a pancake body)along with the 'made in USA' lead me to believe that it is not a '60's guitar. The Made in USA began in 1970. The binding is very interesting. My book doesn't say whether the
'Standard '58" had the uniform depth binding as on the original L.P.'s from the '50's, but the 1st RI Goldtop from 1968 had deeper binding in the cutaway....as with all non-reissue L.P.'s from '68 on have. IF you have the original pots, there will some dates on them. Got any numbers from those???
The mods have affected the value. IF this is a Standard '58, my "pre-economic downturn" book shows prices for exc cond in the 4-5K range. That price probably took a hit along with everything else...except fine acoustics from Martin and Gibson. YOur guitar doens't fit that exc cond, but it is an interesting guitar. Nice player, right?

Ringo · March 9th, 2010, 11:51 PM

Hi Wally
I've never heard of a Standard 58 RI, but I'm certainly no expert on Les Pauls. To my eyes it doesn't look like a refinish. There is only one pot that may have been original , I believe it's a 1966 pot, 137662? - 500k AT.
The other pots are Dimarzios.
I thought all the Les Pauls had pancake bodies starting in late 69 or early 1970?
This has the one piece mahogany neck , not the laminated 3 piece maple neck.
I probably will take to Gruhns the next time I go to Nashville and see what they think about it.
It does play great and sounds very good, the tech who worked on it said everyone at Martin Music here in Memphis heard it and thought it sounded better than the guitars they had in the store, and they deal in a lot of high end axes.

johnreardon · March 10th, 2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Ringo, that is an interesting guitar. The 2-piece body, the uniform depth of the bindig in the cutaway and the 'no volute' neck along with the serial number and the 'made in USA' lead me to believe that that is a LEs Paul Standard '58 RI. IT would have come with 2 soapbars with 'Gibson' embossed on them, and the one-piece stop tialpiece/bridge. IT was i..right?

Wally, not necessarily disagreeing with you but why do you the think it's a 58 RI, as 58 RIs had humbuckers? I know they refinished some 56 Goldtops and fitted humbuckers but wasn't aware that they built any 58 with P90s.

Are you looking at the Blue Book? If so which page.

Nice guitar regardless

Wally · March 10th, 2010, 11:22 AM

JOhn, I didn't say that it was a '58 RI. I am thinking that it is a guitar called the "Les Paul STandard '58" that was introduced in 1971. That guitar had the one-piece neck with no volute, soapbar pickups and the one-piece bridge/tailpiece. IN short, it had the details of a 1954 LEs Pual, and why they (Gibson) called it a "Les Paul STandard '58" we will never know....because it doesn't resemble any LEs Paul from 1958.
Ringo, you are correct about the pancake body....1969. The 'Made in USA' puts the guitar in the 1970's, though. THe body may have been particular to the L.P. STandard
'58???
The binding is at odds with the LEs Paul STandards of the late '60's.Tthe binding on the guitar that Ringo has brought to the thread is done in the fashion of the vintage LEs Pauls from 1952-1960...that is, it is uniform depth around the body and thereby leaves that bit of maple visible in the cutaway. The Les Paul STandards from the late '60's and in fact through the rest of LEs Paul production until this day...excepting the Historic reissues and the pre-historic RI's adn the Classic 60....have deeper binding in the cutaway that hides that maple cap where it joins the mahogany in the cutaway. I can guess that the L.P. STandard '58 is perhaps one of the first L.P.'s to be bound in the manner of the original Les Pauls. This guitar is a mix of details, and I think that it is a L.P. Standard '58 from the early '70's....the stamped 'Made in USA' sort of nails it down to this period despite any other conflicting details. IN fact, the Gruhn book does not specify ANY L.P. from the late '60's or early '70's as having the binding done in the manner that this guitar has. Teh Gruhn book specifies that the L.P. STandard '58 was a goldtop, though. So, his book does not line out exactly what this guitar is, but I don't think it is from the '60's.
This information is taken from the Gruhn/Carter 'Guide to Vintage Guitars'.
If that 'Made in USA' wasnt' stamped in the headstock one might convince an unsuspecting person that one was looking at a real 'burst form the '50's. IT wouldn't fool anyone who knew what they were looking at, but it is an odd guitar. The first Gibson L.P.'s (other than this one, it seems) to be built with the uniform binding, no volute, one-piece mahogany neck, two-piece body since the 1960 Les Paul would have been the custom-ordered LEs Pauls from 1979-1980...Guitar Trader, Jimmy Wallace and a couple of other dealers ordered some LEs Pauls with specs "like" those of the original 'bursts.
These gutars pre-date the HIstoric RI which debuted in 1985 with the LEs Paul REissue
('59).
Ringo, it will be interesting to know what Gruhn says about this one. LEt us know. My guess is just what I can gleam from the Gruhn/Carter book and my experience....limited though it is.

johnreardon · March 10th, 2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

JOhn, I didn't say that it was a '58 RI. I am thinking that it is a guitar called the "Les Paul STandard '58" that was introduced in 1971. That guitar had the one-piece neck with no volute, soapbar pickups and the one-piece bridge/tailpiece. IN short, it had the details of a 1954 LEs Pual, and why they (Gibson) called it a "Les Paul STandard '58" we will never know....because it doesn't resemble any LEs Paul from 1958.

.

Wally you actually did mention 'lead me to believe that that is a LEs Paul Standard '58 RI', which is why I queried it.

the Blue Book, which I have, does mention 58's with P90s, but they were all Goldtops, so possibly this has been refinished or Custom order.

I remember reading somewhere, last year, about an early 50's P90 Goldtop (not this guitar) that Gibson made as a burst and people were thinking it was probably the first burst made.

Wally · March 10th, 2010, 12:37 PM

John, my apologies. Reissue just must have stuck in my mind. I have editted that 'RI' out so as not to confuse a future reader. My bad! We all knew that it wasn't an R8. The serial number and 'Made in USA' assures us of that.
YEs, the tobacco 'burst is at odds with the Gruhn info that the STandard '58 should be a goldtop. IT would take an in-hand inspection to decide if it left the factory with that finish. IF it did, then it is an oddity.

johnreardon · March 10th, 2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

John, my apologies. Reissue just must have stuck in my mind. I have editted that 'RI' out so as not to confuse a future reader. My bad! We all knew that it wasn't an R8. The serial number and 'Made in USA' assures us of that.
YEs, the tobacco 'burst is at odds with the Gruhn info that the STandard '58 should be a goldtop. IT would take an in-hand inspection to decide if it left the factory with that finish. IF it did, then it is an oddity.

No problems, I am the same. I have recently bought a 58RI and I keep adding the letters RI to everything.

just found the info on the guitar I mentioned. People believe it was a 56 Goldtop that had the colour altered on the assembly line. This guitar was Tobacco Sunburst as well

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6336136

Not sure if it sold